psychoceramics: Hale Bopp and Velikovsky

[Alan Olsen <alan @ ctrl-alt-del.com>]

This is from the "Generally Weird Mailing list".  Laurie Williams is a
grade A #1 kook.  This is not the best example of nuttery, but it is up
there.  I need to post some of the earlier Hale Bopp stuff.  It is
"interesting"...


>Return-Path: owner-g--@I--.org
>From: w--@p--.apc.org
>Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:15:29 +1000
>To: g--@I--.org, in_search_of@primenet.com, ufo-l@mb.protree.com
>Subject: Hale Bopp and Velikovsky
>Sender: owner-g--@n--.Integral.org
>Errors-To: owner-g--@n--.Integral.org
>Reply-To: GenerallyW--@I--.org
>X-Mailing-List: 	The Generally Weird Mailing List
>X-Mailing-List-Original-Sender: w--@p--.apc.org
>X-Mailing-List-Organization: The Integration Project
>X-Mailing-List-Server: Majordomo 1.93
>X-Mailing-List-Owner: D--@I--.org
>X-Mailing-List-Url: http://www.integral.org/GenerallyWeird
>
>Hale Bopp and Velikovsky.
> 
>> From owner-g--@I--.org  Sat Apr  5 23:16:26 1997
>> From: Richard Grainger <r--@i--.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: Lawrie Williams and Hale Bopp
> 
>> I use my real name and this is what happens....
>My unreserved apologies for undeserved rudeness to you.
> 
>> ... Well actually I am who I say I am
>Well you aren't a Nancy anyway, you show signs of intelligence.
> 
>> ...In actual fact I have quite an open mind, I think it is reasonably
likely
>> that there has already been ET contact with Earth and that the major
>> governments of this world have covered this fact up.  I "beleive in ghosts"
>> although I don't find them particulary interesting, probably just an
>> electromagnetic phenomenom.
>Then tone down the debunking Richard, so that others will feel safe
>to share their stuff with us on the weird list.
> 
>> What I am against however is the increasing trend towards mysticising UFO's
>> and deifying their inhabitants....
>Then you have read me wrong. I have strived to demystify the things even
>if that involves recognizing aspects of their interaction with humans that 
>is normally claimed by the religious types to be their province. You sure 
>got me wrong on the deification angle too, when the ancients talked about 
>Hermes or Hera or Zeus they did it in the way that we talk nowadays of NASA 
>or Uncle Sam or Science. 
> 
>You see, the only way we relate to non-Christian/Muslim/Jewish Entities
>nowadays is in terms of these pathetic monotheistic supercults. People 
>did not use their paradigms in dealing with the "gods". It is ironic
>that even smart people who reject religion are stuck with their way of 
>seeing things because other perspectives were savagely crushed by them 
>over the past 15OO years. I hope I have now made this idea clear as it 
>is a very important one.
> 
>> a tragic example of this was the Heaven's Gate Cult. 
>I bet you every person involved was indoctrinated in US style Christianity
>before they were old enough to think for themselves. That is by far the most
>disgusting thing about monotheistic religions, their belief in brainwashing
>little children.  By that I mean no reflection on moderate Christians &tc.
> 
>> Your postings mixing UFO's, apocalypse and pseudo history are exactly the 
>> thing I'm talking about.  Although like me, you seem to think organised 
>> religion is mindless superstition based on badly translated texts, you are 
>> replacing it with stuff that is equally mindless and seems to be the
result 
>> of some VERY selective researching... 
>I cannot agree with this, and hope you do not now either.
> 
>> How many of your films have actually been made, this isn't an insult, I'm
>> just interested. 
>Only little ones. This is why I am getting involved now in other aspects
>of the production of big ones. 
> 
>>> .                         ..... I've spent many happy hours 
>>> trying to untangle the chemical reactions involved.
> 
>> Wow! A pseudo scientist, as well as a pseudo historian. Impressive!
>Not fair. Scientists do not have a monopoly on science. Nor is there
>anything "pseudo" about my chemistry.
> 
>>> Concepts I've been hammering for years are finding their way already into 
>>> mainstream thinking. The Earth has suffered many catastrophes over the
past 
>>> 3O OOO years, we *are* in the midst of an extinction episode. And I have
>>> clearly identified Earth-brushing comets as the immediate cause.
>> Mainstream thinking being "Arthur C. Clarkes Mysterious World" or
>> "Sightings" right?
>No. A better example would be the savage fight in the USA between 
>catastrophists and gradualists. The gradualists won, but were not
>necessarily right.
> 
>>>more my ideas are attacked, the more you honour me by placing me in the 
>>>ranks with Velikovsky and other sorely misunderstood scholars.  : )
>> I won't claim to know who Velikovsky was
>Velikovsky wrote "Worlds in Collision" in which he said that according
>to Sumerian and other ancient records a bright object was seen to come
>from Jupiter, wander around the solar system causing terror to humanity,
>before finally ploughing into Venus. This involved the Earth in a series
>of catastrophes. I have suggested it also led humanity to the development
>of sophisticated mathematics (frantically calculating orbits) and to
>the development of monumental architecture (making fallout shelters).
> 
>Velikovsky was neither a chemist nor an astronomer. He just reported what
>he discovered as an historian. He talked of "carbohydrates" from comets.
>He meant hydrocarbons, a forgivable mistake. He was rubbished by livid
>scientists. But he was vindicated last year when Hyukatake showed up -
>redolent with hydrocarbons!  And now Hale-Bopp has done the same.
> 
>What I have been so excited about is that HB's orbit and orbital period
>matches that of the supposed body that had a near miss with Jupiter and
>originally caused these ancient holocausts. Sadly no astronomer has been
>prepared to back this observation due to peer pressure, the myopia of
>professional specialization and the "religious" implications.
> 
>What I am so worried about is that if HB did have a near miss with 
>Jupiter last time through, then there just has to be megatonnes of
>debris following in its wake, years or decades or even centuries
>behind it. 
> 
>> but if you are a scholar, which school/college/university are you at? 
>> The Uri Gellar school of spoon  bending? 
>It is highly probable that I was teaching college level science and
>maths before you were born. (No offense taken or intended.)
> 
>>> We have common ground after all my friend. Religion is misguided 
>>> superstition. Alas in its fixation it closely resembles your outlook. 
>> Yes what a raving fanatic I am.  I wouldn't have come on this list if I
>> wasn't interested in alternative views of the world BUT however your views
>> are a little too nonsensical. 
>This is what books are for. When you join a mailing list, and especially
>if you find fault with the views of others, you really should do some
>homework first. You admit for instance that you have not even heard of
>Velikovsky. I suggest you spend a little time perusing Graham Hancock's
>"Fingerprints of the Gods" (Mandarin 1995). If you do you will notice
>that Comets are not mentioned. Hancock beautifully documents *what* 
>happened, I have apparently put my finger on *how* it happened. Let me 
>add that this is not my work alone. Some astronomers are speaking up.
> 
>>>>> across the sky towards the circumpolar stars and then on
>>>>> All Fool's Day 1997 turns and crawls southwards again
>>>>> into what the ancients called "the abyss". Later, we
>>>>> will meet portions of the cloud.
> 
>>>Reaffirmed. Aka "Aciel". Correct. True. So what's the problem?
> 
>> The cloud, when exactly is this cloud going to meet Earth then?
> 
>The 64 billion dollar question. Every year in early January we will pass 
>through the comet's path in our orbit around the sun. It is the origin of 
>the custom of Xmas, formerly Jan 6. The mythology surrounding Xmas is full 
>of clues pointing to cyclic bombardment from the heavens. 
> 
>>> As anticipated. But the lesson is it missed our ORBIT by *9* million miles
>>> and that figure varies wildly on each of its orbits..... one of these 
>>> times it will brush the Earth again, as it has in the past. Or maybe even 
>>> cream us grossly.
>> When has it brushed in the past? IT HASN'T! IT WON'T! Live for the now and
>> stop pontificating about an apocalypse than isn'y going to happen! 
>20,000 years ago, when the temperature soared by 13 degrees F in a fifty
>year period and deserts formed in the Gobi, Sahara, Arabia and Oz. We
>live in the aftermath with a totally disrupted and impoverished ecology.
>This flies in the face of current western orthodoxy but so what?
> 
>18 612   Aztec 1st cycle - (Vatican Codex A-3738) 
>17 OOO   Ice age less severe - deglaciation
>15 OOO   North American genera of large mammals go extinct
>15 OOO   ice melting epoch starts
>14 604   Aztec 2nd cycle - flood 
>11 OOO   North American mammal extinction rate increases
>1O 4OO   humans vanish from North America
>10 OOO   sudden warming
> 9 560   Atlantis sinks according to Egyptian records
> 8 OOO   core samples from Moon show evidence of heating at this time
> 5 793   Aztec 4th cycle - fire 
> 1 5OO   a body "split from Jupiter", nearly hit Earth and got Venus. 
> 
>>>     ........I wind people of this mentality up with talk of UFO's 
>>> and another useful one is fairies. And I just stick to truths!
>> UFO's maybe. Fairies well I have met a few of them myself, but thats what
>> happens when you go in the wrong kind of pubs.... 
>I don't mean gentlemen gender benders, I mean those diminutive human-like
>creatures with very human emotions, telepathy, the power of invisibility
>and a high degree of independence. Infraterrestrials whose name is an
>abbreviation of "fire of Ares".  They most definitely exist!
> 
>>> So be watching Jan 3-4 1998, Jan 3-4 1999, Jan 2-5 2000, Jan 2-5 2001,
>>> Jan 2-5 2002. I have the advantage here. The "sting in the tail" might
>>> be decades away, perhaps centuries. But come it will.....
> 
>Lawrie Williams_______________
>
>
---
|            "Mi Tio es infermo, pero la carretera es verde!"            |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l a--@t--.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |a--@c---alt-del.com|